I have a son about to enter 1st class at USNA. He will be receiving a mechE degree. He is considering nuke school, and I am trying to get my head around what it is and how it works. I understand there is a 15-18 month training program. How long after the school is his military obligation, and what career path would he have? Would he need to spend time on a sub or could he focus on above water ships? Any and all insight would be appreciated. My goal is to be able to have a knowledge based conversation with him about it.
Have a relative (also an ME) who recently went through Nuke Power School (submarine track) so will do my best to answer based on that experience.
First, a mid doesn't select NPS per se -- the service assignment is either submarines or nuke surface. If s/he wants to be a submariner, s/he should already have so indicated as this is a pre-selection process that starts 2/C year. IOW, you indicate you want to be a submariner and the submarine community decides if it wants you -- via interviews, etc. If DS hasn't already done this, he may still be able to select subs, but needs to sort that out asap with his leadership. Submariners almost always know well before service assignment that they'll be going subs b/c they've been pre-selected. Occasionally, USNA needs to get "volunteers" late in the process if the quota isn't met.
The other option is to go Nuke Surface. I believe (but am not sure), that the process is somewhat similar to subs in that there is pre-selection. However, I know that there are times when they "recruit" people for Nuke surface, even after service assignment as this happened to another relative (who decided to stick with regular SWO). More recent mids can weigh in on the above.
I believe that surface nukes first go to their ship and get qualified as a SWO, after which they go to NPS and more or less follow the path below. There were more than a few SWOs in relative's NPS class and most were LTs. As an aside, most did VERY well at NPS.
Once selected for the nuclear power program, submariners select their class date for NPS in Charleston. Class start dates range from June to October, though my family member's class was delayed until January. NPS lasts 6 months. After that, all nuclear-trained officers go to prototype (where they work on real reactors). Location for submariners remains in Charleston. Not sure where nuke surface goes. This school is also roughly 6 months long.
Near the end of prototype, submariners put in their preference for their boat. There are 6 geographic locations as well as 3 types of subs (SSN, SSGN, SSBN). My family member got 3rd choice in location and first choice in boat -- ended up with a fantastic boat in a great location (even if not first choice). The decision is mostly in the hands of Naval Reactors and a lot has to do with your performance at NPS and prototype. Nuke surface officers always go to carriers, but I don't know how their ship selection works.
After prototype, submariners go to sub school -- 3 months in Groton, CT. After that, they go to their boat. My family member who graduated in 2021 will go to the boat next week. Thus, training is about 15 months long but it can be "longer" if you select a later NPS date.
The commitment for nukes remains 5 years AD after graduation. There is no additional service obligation.
One of the big benefits for submariners is the extra pay. The career path also appeals to those with hyper-technical backgrounds, though humanities majors become submariners and do very well.
The first "sea tour" for submariners is 2.5 - 3 years long. After that, if they decide to stay in, they would go to a shore billet or to grad school. Grad school would involve an additional service obligation.
My DS early-selected subs in Feb of 2/C and interviewed in March of 2/C with nuclear reactors in DC. He is a tier 3 major but had all A’s in stem classes and a high OOM. They also had his ACT scores that they reviewed before allowing him to interview. A sub mentor on the Yard crash-crammed 2 years of engineering into his head before the interview. At the interview, he was asked to use the Bernoulli equation, energy equation and momentum equation (all Diffy Q’s) to solve flow problems on a white board. I guess he did well enough (besides fogging a mirror). But plenty of sub and surface nukes do this in the fall of Firstie year (and into the spring for those drafted).
He has a friend who is going surface nuke. They get assigned to a destroyer for a year before going to power school. The reasoning is they will get more meaningful watch time on a destroyer.
I heard from some semi-reliable sources that most USNA sub selects will be reporting to Charleston in October. Those who are Tier 1 and 2 report in late September for 3 weeks of “get your quantitative “stuff” together” before the engineers report. Those 3 weeks are mandatory.
DD went Nuke Subs - USNA1985 accurately described the process. Regarding the commitment post Nuke Power School and Prototype school in Groton - whatever commitment they make by attending these schools runs concurrently with their USNA 5 year commitment. (If they go to graduate school prior to Nuke Power, that might change things as I don't know the specific commitment for NPS.)
I do know my DD went to Nuke Power School starting in September 2020 after the 2020 graduation and her commitment end May 2025
DS graduated NROTC in '21 and went SWO nuke. I can't speak to the selection process via USNA, but for NROTC he had to complete two interviews; a technical panel interview and an interview with the Admiral in charge of the nuclear program. These interviews are usually conducted in Washington D.C. but, due to COVID, his were virtual. (Once accepted into the nuke pipeline he received a 15K bonus) SWO(N) candidates go to Basic Division Officer Course Phase 1 (BDOC) and Junior Officer of the Deck (JOOD) training after commissioning, then go to their first ship for a 20 month assignment. During ship selection, there are slots that are designated for nukes only and some for nuke available. At their first ship, they are expected to get qualified and earn their SWO pin. DS selected a destroyer at a forward deployed location, so he would be out underway more.
SWO(N)s go to a three week pre-school before starting nuclear power school to brush up on some of their skills since they have been out of school a couple years by this time. As stated above, power school is in Charleston. Nuclear prototype school can be in Charleston or Ballston Spa, New York. After graduating prototype school, they go out to a carrier. There is no additional service commitment, except that they have to serve 30 months after graduation from nuclear school. If a SWO(N) decides to stay in after their carrier assignment, they would then go to a shore tour, which could be a wide variety of things. From there, sea tours rotate between conventional ships, where they could be assigned to any department, other than engineering and engineering assignments on a carrier. Carriers are the only nuclear powered surface ships we have. The idea of switching between conventional ships and carriers is to get them broader experience and prepare them for eventual command. If they stay in, the bonuses are substantial, as they are eligible for SWO retention bonus, as well as nuclear retention bonus.
DS was scheduled to report to power school in July, but was granted a delay until October, since his ship will be underway until some time in June. This should allow him to come home for some leave before reporting.
There is no additional service obligation for either Subs or NSWO.
Graduate school after first tour incurs an additional 3 year service obligation that is served concurrently with the preexisting obligation. So the actual additional required service time might only be 1-2 years.
Graduate school before first tour, such as Bowman, Shoemaker, etc., incurs an additional 3 year service obligation that is served consecutively (after) the preexisting obligation. For USNA grads, the total service obligation is 8 years.
Picking a community based on how quickly you can get out of the USN is never a smart move (IMHO). Always start any job with the intention to stay "forever." Makes life a lot easier and, sometimes, you realize you really love what you're doing and want to stay "forever."
5 years seems like a long time when you're 21/22. As all of us older folks know, it's merely a stepping stone on the vast walkway of life.
I have a son about to enter 1st class at USNA. He will be receiving a mechE degree. He is considering nuke school, and I am trying to get my head around what it is and how it works. I understand there is a 15-18 month training program. How long after the school is his military obligation, and what career path would he have? Would he need to spend time on a sub or could he focus on above water ships? Any and all insight would be appreciated. My goal is to be able to have a knowledge based conversation with him about it.
Lots of good information here. FWIW, I was an enlisted nuke and SWO(N). Feel free to DM specific questions.
DS was selected for Nuke Power School (is an ME). he has to report to charleston in about 4 weeks but the 5 year clock started ticking last week i think. i believe he will stay in longer though. also you are EITHER a nuke sub or a Nuke SWO depending on your selection (and Navys needs). DS is submarines
It is always amazing years later to see those who planned to "5 and Dive" that stay for 20 or 30 years and those who planned to make it a career who are gone in 5. And those who do exactly what everyone predicted. You never know . . .
It is always amazing years later to see those who planned to "5 and Dive" that stay for 20 or 30 years and those who planned to make it a career who are gone in 5. And those who do exactly what everyone predicted. You never know . . .
It is pretty interesting. It is a great example of "You don't know what you don't know". We build impressions of how something will be, but reality rarely meets expectations. My DS is incoming Freshman with NROTC. He is looking at Nuke sub or SWO(N), but I'm not holding my breath that it will stay that way. Much like a significant amount of MIDS, the community choice will change several times in the next few years.
Also GREAT info on Nuke school in this thread. Really appreciate it to all.
Nice read, thanks.
. been watching the last three ship selections. Pearl Harbor on the average has 18 ships listed, some nukes. The mids picked them all before halfway through the program. I think for "5&dive" it's a no brainer. Why stay in a classroom learning nukes when you have daily access of surf and sun (not to mention cash and ahem). Just wondering why Rota sells much faster than Pearl. It's not surf and sun. probably the lure of Tuscanian and Nordic attractions .
I have a relative in Pearl. It's not paradise if you live and work there. It's very expensive to live -- yes, you get a good housing allowance, but everything there (food, gas, etc.) is expensive. It's $$ to travel and you can burn a lot of leave on travel to visit people in CONUS. There can be tension between locals and "outsiders." My relative had to leave home at 0500 in order to get a parking place on base that wasn't a mile walk. You stand a 1 in 3 duty rotation so it's not as if you're at the beach every day.
Not saying Pearl isn't a great place and lots of people love being stationed there. But visiting for 2 weeks of vacation and living there full-time are two different things.
Was my Dad's first duty station after OCS. He arrived, hopped on a destroyer, headed to the Gulf of Tonkin in '71 (I think). Mom arrived with older brother and baby-me after. She was 23 with two young kids and a deployed husband. Yeah, wasn't a lot of fun for her .
I have a relative in Pearl. It's not paradise if you live and work there. It's very expensive to live -- yes, you get a good housing allowance, but everything there (food, gas, etc.) is expensive. It's $$ to travel and you can burn a lot of leave on travel to visit people in CONUS. There can be tension between locals and "outsiders." My relative had to leave home at 0500 in order to get a parking place one base that wasn't a mile walk. You stand a 1 in 3 duty rotation so it's not as if you're at the Beach every day.
Not saying Pearl isn't a great place and lots of people love being stationed there. But visiting for 2 weeks of vacation and living there full-time are two different things.
Non concur. Comments above were classic among the 50,000 + who moved to Hawaii and returned to the mainland after nine months, disgusted.
If you're passionate about the islands, you can detour most of the idiosyncratic social issues like homelessness, traffic, education, high cost, corruption. If not, in nine months, entire family including rover are first in line at HNL airport ready to board a flight to EWR or LAX.
Examples. To access first class waves, drive a beat up car to the beach. Self explanatory. To blend in, wear some sort of surf apparel or the more formal Aloha attire. Avoid H1 traffic between 0500-0745; 1530-1845. To make friends, don't start with. In the mainland, we do this. Look for grocery bargains, commissary might not have the best price. Avoid homeless persons by taking a detour and always have a contingency plan. Other than the waves, I like the constant increase in home valuation.
Nice read, thanks.
. been watching the last three ship selections. Pearl Harbor on the average has 18 ships listed, some nukes. The mids picked them all before halfway through the program. I think for "5&dive" it's a no brainer. Why stay in a classroom learning nukes when you have daily access of surf and sun (not to mention cash and ahem). Just wondering why Rota sells much faster than Pearl. It's not surf and sun. probably the lure of Tuscanian and Nordic attractions .
18 billets, not ships. There's only a handful of ships in Hawaii. Often the choice is not based on the locations, but the schedule and the platform. Shipyard/availability life is pretty miserable for any unqualified ENS, regardless of homeport location. Amphibs don't do any of the "cool" missions. Cruisers are an O-6 command. Rota is FDNF, which is its own feather that many ambitious JOs want to add to their caps. For the same reason, Japan usually goes first, because there's always a crop of officers that want to be at the leading edge of the fight in the Pacific.
Hawaii is definitely ridiculously expensive, especially for a new O-1 that won't get much in terms of base pay and BAH. BAH gets lower every year, and COLA has been slashed to just about nothing. Driving to and from Pearl every day is a nightmare.
Was my Dad's first duty station after OCS. He arrived, hopped on a destroyer, headed to the Gulf of Tonkin in '71 (I think). Mom arrived with older brother and baby-me after. She was 23 with two young kids and a deployed husband. Yeah, wasn't a lot of fun for her .
I can totally empathize with your mother as I too watched my husband go off on 3 Westpac cruises (65-68) on a destroyer while I had two children by myself. He was stationed out of San Diego though, which I loved. Now we are watching one of our 9 grandchildren (8 of which are girls) finish her Plebe year. We feel very grateful for our own experiences and the blessing of being around to enjoy a fringe role in the lives of our grandkids!
Yeah, there is more to the story of her experience there. Really bad stuff, unfortunately, which I will not share.
Being a Navy spouse is really hard, and I have such admiration and respect for all of you. Watching what they have to do and go through is humbling. As an adult instead of a Navy brat, I have so much better understanding of things now. My hat's off to all of you.
Have a relative (also an ME) who recently went through Nuke Power School (submarine track) so will do my best to answer based on that experience.
First, a mid doesn't select NPS per se -- the service assignment is either submarines or nuke surface. If s/he wants to be a submariner, s/he should already have so indicated as this is a pre-selection process that starts 2/C year. IOW, you indicate you want to be a submariner and the submarine community decides if it wants you -- via interviews, etc. If DS hasn't already done this, he may still be able to select subs, but needs to sort that out asap with his leadership. Submariners almost always know well before service assignment that they'll be going subs b/c they've been pre-selected. Occasionally, USNA needs to get "volunteers" late in the process if the quota isn't met.
The other option is to go Nuke Surface. I believe (but am not sure), that the process is somewhat similar to subs in that there is pre-selection. However, I know that there are times when they "recruit" people for Nuke surface, even after service assignment as this happened to another relative (who decided to stick with regular SWO). More recent mids can weigh in on the above.
I believe that surface nukes first go to their ship and get qualified as a SWO, after which they go to NPS and more or less follow the path below. There were more than a few SWOs in relative's NPS class and most were LTs. As an aside, most did VERY well at NPS.
Once selected for the nuclear power program, submariners select their class date for NPS in Charleston. Class start dates range from June to October, though my family member's class was delayed until January. NPS lasts 6 months. After that, all nuclear-trained officers go to prototype (where they work on real reactors). Location for submariners remains in Charleston. Not sure where nuke surface goes. This school is also roughly 6 months long.
Near the end of prototype, submariners put in their preference for their boat. There are 6 geographic locations as well as 3 types of subs (SSN, SSGN, SSBN). My family member got 3rd choice in location and first choice in boat -- ended up with a fantastic boat in a great location (even if not first choice). The decision is mostly in the hands of Naval Reactors and a lot has to do with your performance at NPS and prototype. Nuke surface officers always go to carriers, but I don't know how their ship selection works.
After prototype, submariners go to sub school -- 3 months in Groton, CT. After that, they go to their boat. My family member who graduated in 2021 will go to the boat next week. Thus, training is about 15 months long but it can be "longer" if you select a later NPS date.
The commitment for nukes remains 5 years AD after graduation. There is no additional service obligation.
One of the big benefits for submariners is the extra pay. The career path also appeals to those with hyper-technical backgrounds, though humanities majors become submariners and do very well.
The first "sea tour" for submariners is 2.5 - 3 years long. After that, if they decide to stay in, they would go to a shore billet or to grad school. Grad school would involve an additional service obligation.
